Cambelt fitting guide

All aspects of tuning,modification and repairs to the BX 16valve.
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Adrian E
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Cambelt fitting guide

Post by Adrian E »

I seem to remember a meticulously detailed set of instructions for changing the cambelt and getting it tensioned correctly being posted online (possibly by the late and much missed AlanS?) but I don't seem to have it book marked

Have tried a search (as all good forum mods do :lol: ) without success - can anyone point me to it? Can't see anything on the main site either.....

I posted the cam timing pins off to my Dad yesterday - the phase 1 is going in for the head to be lifted after they're back from hols the week after next. The guys know what they're doing, but thought any info that makes the job less painful is worth providing
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch »

Did it the other day in situ for the first time. It's actually really easy, the only bit that gave me grief was the securing bolt on the lower tensioner rounded off so I couldn't adjust it.

Used the spoox pins, and just tightened it until it wasn't slapping the cover, as they tend to do if just very slightly loose. Good as gold :)

I've always tightened the one near the pump in a clockwise direction anyway and merely used the other as guidance with no problems to date. Reckon I could do them in less than an hour now, I'm going to do one on the pink valver just so it's done. Being stood 8 years....that belt must be crusty :lol:
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Timmo
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Post by Timmo »

As Kitch said, witht he proper pins is only an hours job or so!

easiest thing i found was to remove the top mount and using a jack and suitable protection between the jack head anbd sump lift the engine on the cambelt side as it Muchly eases access tot he belt!

the Allen bolt heads on the tensioners are very easily rounded mind, i've replaced mine with 13mm/ 1/2" heads as makes it a lot easier!
tensioning the tensioners uses the sump plug key, and you can just about get a spanner in to the nut to tighten it at the right point witht he tension on,
i did find that to get the belt on i had to take the tensioner to the back of the block off, made it a lot easier i have to say!

when i did mine i adjusted the tensioners until the two cam pins were loose int he locking holes (as in pull outable and slot back inable with out any issues!), been sweet like a sewing machien since, been three years since now,
Timmo 8)

After all i am the Cornish one!

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MZWiZard
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Post by MZWiZard »

I recently fitted a new belt as well - also tightening it until it didnt slap the cover. Normally, I used the rear spanner most as just a guidance for the belt, but this time I played with the tightening of it. And it seems that loads of torque can be had, if you tighten the spanner at the rear most? :shock:
Kindly, Jesper V
-----------------------------
Bloody red BX 16Valve 1992 / 350.000km+
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docchevron1472
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Post by docchevron1472 »

Kitch wrote:just tightened it until it wasn't slapping the cover,
About 14 SEEMS then! :wink:
1990 BX 16v Phase 2
1989 BX TD hybrid
1971 BL 350FG Ambulance (unique)
1993 Dennis Lance 132
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Toddman
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cambelt

Post by Toddman »

You really should write that cambelt replacement guide you talked about doing doc :D

Setting a valvers cambelt tension using something that is made of flimsy plastic and that has a tendancy to warp is not something I would do and if can afford the Spoox pins you may as well pay somebody at Ferrari to do the belt for you :P

The Haynes doesn't do a bad job of running through the proceddure but their cam pins drawing is a tad rubbish - the shorter length of the pin should be the narrow part.

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Luke
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1989 BX 16valve White 70k almost up to scratch
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Post by docchevron1472 »

I have pins that were made for me in a machine shop.

The valver is due a belt, so if I ever get said pins back from Bandit then I'll write a little something up if you want.

I do have a SEEM meter somewhere, but I never use it. Trying to actually get it on the belt with the engine in the car is a faff, and entirely unnecessary really.
1990 BX 16v Phase 2
1989 BX TD hybrid
1971 BL 350FG Ambulance (unique)
1993 Dennis Lance 132
That's when I reach for my Revolver
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Toddman
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Post by Toddman »

You can't beat having some decent locking pins that is for sure.

A guide would be much appreciated doc 8)

We always set the tension using the old twist method on the longest run and a couple of double checks after rotating everything and sliding all the pins back in does work perfectly well I reckon.

We got the belts to do on both mine this year and would like to get the white one done in the next month or two as it is due, I got the belt along with an inner steering rack joint last year with the intention of geting my mate over and doing them together as they are both worked from the drivers side.

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Luke
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ollie
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Post by ollie »

I have a copy of the Alan S guide somewhere on a disc, and it reckons the haynes one is actually wrong! pins are readily available in a franklin tools timing kit for less than a tenner, and I've never used a guage ever on anything! best system I reckomend is simply starting them up and watching how much they flap about and then do a twist feel test afterwards!

Ollie
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

Ollie

Have you come across the AlanS guide since you posted before?

My Dad's now doing the belt himself and has never done anything more complicated than a Nissan Micra (when he broke the cast crank pulley by wedging something through it to stop it turning while trying to get the bolt undone!) and a Mk1 Golf GTI - both single cam.....

We do have the pins that were made up by a member on here some time ago, so at least we know when it's roughly right - I have a recollection that the AlanS guide suggests Haynes is wrong, which worries me as that's all my Dad has to go on!!

If you do I can PM you my e-mail address :D

Cheers

Adrian
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Timmo
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Post by Timmo »

adrian, i did mine as per the haynes (pretty sure i did anyways!) and had no problems,
its really not that hard to do,
i had to remove the top mount fromt he engine to get my cam cover off though! but wind it round so that the pulleys lock off and the same for the crank, might need to remove the back tensioner to get the belt on as its a bit tight squeeze otherwise, then its a case of sdjusting the tenioners until the pins are free to come in and out the cam pulleys,
2 cranks over by hand from the crank pulley and recheck,
pretty damn sure thats how i did mine, had it down to under an hour in the end as had issues with a dodgy dizzy cap not letting it run when up to temp! (checked the timing and re did the belt a few times to make sure!)

am sure as posted there is a proper guide as to how to do it but, it really isnt all that tricky!
Timmo 8)

After all i am the Cornish one!

Its Because its French!
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

Hiya

The top mount is off the car anyway to get the old belt off - I'll pass on the tip ref removing the rear tensioner if he can't get the belt on easily - I tried ringing and he's gone off into town for a part (no idea what!) so will hopefully speak to him a bit later.

It's chucking it down with rain in Bristol but he's still plodding on :lol: No stopping him once he gets started.....
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belt

Post by Toddman »

It is chucking it down here as well :(

Without checking I seem to remember that when tensioning you must rotate the tensioners in specific directions otherwise it sll goes wrong.
Would thinkl it is probably clockwise for the rear tensioner snd anticlockwise for the front one.

I still have two cambelts to get sorte dbefore my valver go anywhere so a guide is going to appear at some point.

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Luke
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Post by ollie »

juyst a quick update if you get an allen bolt rounded off on thes eand youre doing the belt anyway, cut or prise the belt off the the tensioners are free, just use the square toola nd turn the whole tensioner in the undo direction and hey presto the bolt thats through it turns as well!! and can now be turned more easily with you're fingers or mole grips!!

as for special tools if you haven't got them don't fuss just use drill bits and eye them up as central in the cams. the botton crank ones only a parrallel bar anyway.
2 6 mm and 1 8mm should be fine
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Post by ollie »

Heres the text from the Allasn S one, bit long winded but the key points are Tthe ANTI CLOCKWISE BITS!!!!!!

don't be suprised if one tensioner goes to max that is very normall, the other one allways sets it right.


Basically this is it:
His marking the belt with a white out pen and then counting the teeth, is a
great precaution & one that is still recommended but can & probably would still
leave the belt and/or the valve timing somewhat out of adjustment.
The stepped pins are a MUST. I had a couple made from alloy; the car racing guys made them up for me, the logic being that if alloy, they cannot damage anything they pass through & if accidentally left in place, would sheer off & not cause any damage to the engine or head - that's the way racing mechanics think.
Fitting the belt starts at the CRANKshaft NOT CAMshaft as Haynes states; this has been pointed out to me before!! It then goes - pump, RH tensioner, LH
tensioner THEN cams - no slack between cam gears.
To adjust: Obtain a piece of key steel (mine is US made brand "Make - A - Key" which is 5/16" (or 8mm) square by approx. 1 foot long. Bend the last
inch at right angles; you then have a tool which will both remove your sump
plug & fit the cambelt adjuster/tensioners.
Starting at the RH side tensioner, fit 8mm square key into matching hole
in eccentric in tensioner and turn ANTI-CLOCKWISE until it feels tensioned
similar to an alternator belt. Tighten 6mm allen headed bolt using a "6mm
six face spanner" so that a tension wrench can be used.
Go to LH side tensioner and again using the 8mm tool, adjust that tensioner
(Again ANTI-CLOCKWISE)
to the same approx tension as the right one plus approx another 10% My thoughts
are that it may be possible to use one of those cheapy tension wrenches
with a quadrent and needle as measurement media connected to the adjusting
tool. Again, tighten the allen headed bolt.
At this point, push on the belt from both sides to release any pressure
which may be being applied to the pins in the sprockets. Remove the pins
(all 3 :- two in cams and one in crank shaft)
Using a 22mm socket, turn the motor clock wise about 2 or 3 turns. Stop at TDC
and insert pin into crankshaft. Pins should slide straight into cam shaft
sprockets. If they don't, you don't have to do a complete dismantle & do it all
over again, as is suggested by Haynes and other auto data publications. Use
your loaf;
If, we'll say, the crank pin is in position, and the intake (RHS) sprocket
is allowing the pin to slide smoothly in but the exhaust (LHS) sprocket
is hitting and it is found on the LH side of the hole is the problem, then
by adjusting the LH tensioner slightly more, then that should correct it.
Turn a couple of times again & recheck. Most adjustments will need to be
made from the LH adjuster.
Citroen state "Rotate G1 (RH tensioner) and find maximum tension value without
going past 19 units." and later "NOTE:
Roller G1 being in the max. tension position, the sensor may show a reading
below 19 units."
Main Points to come out of this are: - - - If a bit of patience is used
when setting these pins so that they will slide in & out, the valve timing
will be as perfect as is humanly possible.
The adjustments on the belt tensioners must ALWAYS go ANTI-CLOCKWISE (this
is where I do believe a lot have come unstuck) being set in an eccentric,
turning in the wrong direction would create all sorts of problems (a couple of
jobs off the Q & A Forum as well as the 16V board come to mind!) by locating
the tensioner on the wrong section of the belt making any adjustment
ineffectual and settings obsolete.
Haynes shows the right hand side of the belt as being where to "test" the
belt tension. From my reading of the Citroen manual, this is to a point all
bullshit.
The RH tensioner, according to my reading of the manual (which is something
I'll soon confirm when I do mine) is set at "Max" tension. This being the
case, the person fitting can at times, have NO CONTROL over the tension on that
side of the motor unless you have a faulty belt which was made undersized!
This is basically why they advise using the tension checker; they are merely
covering their own arses against law suits for faulty manufacture. They
effectively state that it should be 19 seems (a propriority measurement)
but if it's less don't worry, if the instrument is inaccurate due to setting
up - be careful - and near enough is good enough BUT don't go too far past
that measurement.
I've left the best till last!!!!!!!!!!!
The "U-Beaut" tension checker I have always thought of as being about as
feasible as a "Passion meter" in a slot machine arcade. Appears that I'm
right. According to someone who reckons he knows these gadgets, it is
impossible to fit one properly on to a BX 16 valve due to space constraints; if
they do get it fitted, due to the problems involved, they then don't read
accurately.
They can be used on a BX 16 valve mind you - there's only one catch - -
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