problems with ecu

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Viktor
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problems with ecu

Post by Viktor »

hello again. As i have writen before i have 1988 bx 16v m1.3. i had instaled ecu number 0261200162 (it is originaly for the 1.9 gti 88kw engine) now i got ecu taht rosso sold to me (number 0261200354).
today tried to instal it to my valver and ... nothing good hapened :( no idle at all , huge amount of gasoline in exoust and engine sounds like it's dieing (and feels like only 3 cilinder are working)...

i swiched my old ecu back , and engine works fine but idle is about 1.5k rpm (as allways)

so is my problem :
a)bad ecu
b)bad sensors
c)bad car...

have this car for about 4 years and it still isnt running ok ... i dont know what to do ... help please !
bx 1988 12. 1.9l gti 16v
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch »

The GTi's aren't Motronic are they? Thought they were Jetronic LE?

Anyway, the ECu's rarely fail. Get it all hooked up like normal. Then with engine off, turn butterfly on throttle slightly, and return it. It should make a faint click, which is the throttle positioning switch (tells the ECU you just want to idle) It's bolted on behind the unit with two m8mm headed bolts, and if it falls out of alignment the engine won't know you want to idle, so it'll fast idle or die depending how rich it's running.
If it's not clicking, slacken the 8mm bolts and twist the unit slightly until you hear the click. Then tighten the bolts, and try the throttle again. If it now clicks, try running the car and see if it's cured.

If not, possible the idle valve is knackered. Unplug it and run the car (don't unplug while it's running....gave me a jolt last time I did it!) If theres no change, it's probably that.

Idle issues are common in older Cits and Pugs with the XU engine. I've only just got mine to idle perfectly after 5 years of ownership!
Viktor
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Post by Viktor »

that swich clicks fine , i tested it some time ago ... actualy it could be the idle valve ... i cleaned it some time ago to but it didn't change any thing ...

what about ignition coils resistence ? as i sow in autodata on diferent ecu coils should have diferent resistance ? could it be a broblem ?

if anybody knows what sensors needet for 354 ecu ? maby somthing is missing ...
bx 1988 12. 1.9l gti 16v
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Kitch
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Post by Kitch »

Coil won't make it idle funny mate. If anything, it'll either work or it won't if it has a duff coil.
prm
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Post by prm »

Sounds as if you’ve got a conflict between the ECU and the TPS as Kitch mentioned.

Also the Throttle stop screw could be out of adjustment, if the rpm is oscillating -up to 1500.

With 1988 valver. I would have thought non CAT. Motronic ECU – 119, with a CAS. 043.
A 0.261.200.140 ECU should work – Motronic ML 4.1
Presuming you’ve got a std. 16v Citroen engine, and non air-con.

Have you fitted the Peugeot 16 valve engine?? M 1.3??
Then the above Bosch numbers maybe all to cock

A 354 ECU. Peugeot 309, with CAT ?????????
Sorry, I’m not clued into Peugeot and Bosch numbers but should imagine?? ATS and CTS are the same, CAS – possibly AFM ???? and no doubt, an O2 sensor required.

With an Idle rpm of 1500, and still running incorrectly after 4 years.
I feel you need to get a bench mark with the ignition system and ECU, and work from there.

Regards
Vanny
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Post by Vanny »

354 is for the Mk2 16v, with and without AC and in theory with or without CAT. There are 5 different wiring looms for the BX engine management that i have seen. Three have 2 row ECU's and 3 have 3 row ECU's.

The wiring and ECU pairs are swapable to any engine, however I do not believe a 119 loom will correctly connect to a 354 ECU. Beyond the fact they function quite differently, i think the 119 loom has connections missing that are required by a 354 loom.
prm
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Post by prm »

Many thanks Vanny.

I'll stick to my 119 and 140 ECU's

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Vanny
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Post by Vanny »

what is a 140 for? My understanding is that the 119 produces a better max BHP and better top end feel than the 354, so probably a good one to keep.

I do have an incredibly long list of ECU numbers with some of there applications noted, but there is little point in duplicating it because of the gaps!
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Post by prm »

A 140, I believe, was available from mid 90, with a cat. And no air con??

Found with a completely std engine set-up and 119. The power band about 3800 – 4500 was more responsive. Digs in, with 3rd and 4th gear.

Top end appeared about 200rpm more, but very little difference in power at that level.

Managed to get a detailed pin-out drawing some years ago from Bosch technical, on the 119. Possibly applicable to 140, cat, plus air-con.

Also gives wiring connections on fitting K lights.
Don’t know if this is already available on the forum.

Will post if required.

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mechuccio
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Post by mechuccio »

Vanny wrote:354 is for the Mk2 16v, with and without AC and in theory with or without CAT. There are 5 different wiring looms for the BX engine management that i have seen. Three have 2 row ECU's and 3 have 3 row ECU's.

The wiring and ECU pairs are swapable to any engine, however I do not believe a 119 loom will correctly connect to a 354 ECU. Beyond the fact they function quite differently, i think the 119 loom has connections missing that are required by a 354 loom.
About the 354, that's absolutely true, I've got a belgian model without Cat and with the 354.

But as I understand it well the 140 and 119 are both suitable for a MK1.
As I'm also searching for a new one that doubles the chances to find one :D
You can't spell slaughter without laughter ->I just love my 16V<-
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thanuttiscotsman
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Post by thanuttiscotsman »

hi viktor, shame your having trouble with your car still! anyways from what i know my mk1 16v has a 2 row 119 ecu, the 354 is the 3 row for the newer models with cats etc. if you car is an 88 then i would have thought it would have been a 2 row origionally, maybe someone has changed the ecu and loom at some?

anyway back to the problem, if it is overfueling i would look first at the throttle position sensor as previously mentioned, also check the wiring plugs and connections between all the sensors and the loom etc. it does sound like its a faulty sensor or something. have your tried reading the fault codes from the computer?

rossco
1989 BX 16v ph1 Big project chipped, k+N, scorpion s/s, weber throttle body, Nitrous injection

1990 BX 16v ph2 (now scrapped)
Viktor
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Post by Viktor »

my valver is something in migle betvien mk1 and mk2... it has A/C , as i know had a cat , and still has O2 sensor. bet has "relays in the bag". actualy it's 1988 12"...

thx for helping . i'll try chek all the sensors ... but maybe some of the sensors thet this ecu needs (and my old didnt need) are missing ? wiers that comes to ecu look like stock ... i dont think that someone changet it from ml4.1 to m1.3 ... i thik its stock ...
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Toddman
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ecu

Post by Toddman »

Guys - Viktor is saying he has a 0261200162 ecu and as far as I know this is for an 8v Pug engine with a 1.3 system.

The theory was fitting a known 16v ecu i.e a 354 would help sort out this cars troubles.

Viktor can you show us all some pictures of your car nad engine bay please ? it may help us to fathom out what is going on.

I am confused.com :D

Cheers
Luke
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1989 BX 16valve White 70k almost up to scratch
Viktor
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Post by Viktor »

ok i'll post engine ant other car photos after weekend.

i tied some time ago to remove wiers from idle valve vhile it's idleing and there was no change ... does it meen yhet problem is there ?
bx 1988 12. 1.9l gti 16v
Vanny
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Re: problems with ecu

Post by Vanny »

Viktor wrote:hello again. As i have writen before i have 1988 bx 16v m1.3. i had instaled ecu number 0261200162
Luke, from the above i understood that the car has MP3.1 (given the age etc) at that there has been a bit of confusion in the ECU department. A 162 ECU could in theory be remapped to work the valver, assuming the wiring connections are the same as for a 3.1 loom. However a 354 ecu shouldn't be able to plug into a 3.1 loom (2 row V's 3 row), and a 3.1 loom is likely to have insufficient wiring to correctly run a 354 ECU (should check the wiring diagram really). What do you think?

All in all i would say it is dangerous to try to run the car on a 162 ECU, and the correct 119/140 ECU should be fitted. (Mechucio has listed a few more compatible ECU numbers in his thread).

Nice to see a couple of threads on the ECU though. I have a part written BX ECU bible written which i really should finish and publish, i've learned some interesting things in my quest to map out and remap a BX ECU.
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