EDIT - I have split these posts from Viktors topic, as they will only confuse the issue further if i start replying! Sorry for the original aside post.
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Just to add some more confusion to the ECU myths, i came across something very strange today. A 161 ECU in a Citroen BX 16v Ph2. There is no guarantee that the car started life with this ECU, however the car is a late K-reg, with a CAT, i couldn't see a knock sensor, and the ecu plugs into some very strange mechnical devices that are part located in the enginebay and part in the boot, all connected with a pipe with runs through the 'roof' of the car. I have never seen anything quite like it to be honest!
Any way, the relation here is that It could be that the donor engine (if we still think it is a donor engine) was originally a CAT engine, Euro spec, and very late (hence the strange ECU).
It also makes me think late valvers are a hodge podge of all manner of strange things (which i guess i already knew), and that there is likely a range of ECU's fitted to later models. I suspect that country specific regulations also meant the introduction of different technologies earlier than the UK. I wonder if access to the full range of citroen wiring diagrams for the BX would help?
More ECU shenanigans (161 ECU)
More ECU shenanigans (161 ECU)
Last edited by Vanny on Tue May 19, 2009 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Vanny, this was a link supplied to me by Alan S when my alternative Citroen garage was defeated on my white valver. They fixed the car as soon as they got this diagram!
http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/Electrical/
http://www.rwbsmith.plus.com/citroen2/Electrical/
Vanny wrote ...
Never seen one on a 16v. Must have been on the very last models
Regards
That pipe and control system could have been EVAP, canister purge valve set-up.Just to add some more confusion, i came across something very strange today. A 161 ECU in a Citroen BX 16v Ph2. There is no guarantee that the car started life with this ECU, however the car is a late K-reg, with a CAT, i couldn't see a knock sensor, and the ecu plugs into some very strange mechnical devices that are part located in the enginebay and part in the boot, all connected with a pipe with runs through the 'roof' of the car. I have never seen anything
Never seen one on a 16v. Must have been on the very last models
Regards
It was indeed claimed to be one of the last. Pic here:prm wrote:
That pipe and control system could have been EVAP, canister purge valve set-up.
Never seen one on a 16v. Must have been on the very last models
http://bxclub.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10073
(with symptoms desribed, but now less severe and with missing pipe replaced after Vanny very kindly looked at it (more than just looked at it of course).
Anyway MOT is now the next question. As emissions have always been the major item there's little doubt it will be at least as red as the car...
PRM, I might post some pics up later of that canister. It's very strange, and i think might be some how attached to the fuel system (which scares the crap out me having fuel running through the roof!)
Jack, unless i am very much mistaken the wiring diagrams on the RWB site are the same as those in the Mk2 work shop manual (Citroen not haynes) in which case they ONLY cover 354 and 119 in standard configuration. Which means there isn't a diagram for your magical car!
Jack, unless i am very much mistaken the wiring diagrams on the RWB site are the same as those in the Mk2 work shop manual (Citroen not haynes) in which case they ONLY cover 354 and 119 in standard configuration. Which means there isn't a diagram for your magical car!
ecu
It may not be relevant but what I can add after finding a few notes is the following -
Non CAT 3 row ecu end in - 354/355
CAT equipped 3 row ecu end in - 158/161/167
Does that tie in with what other people have found ?
Cheers
Luke
Non CAT 3 row ecu end in - 354/355
CAT equipped 3 row ecu end in - 158/161/167
Does that tie in with what other people have found ?
Cheers
Luke
Please call me Luke 
1989 BX 16valve White 70k almost up to scratch
1989 BX 16valve White 70k almost up to scratch
I will remember the roof vapour line the next time I light up.
From dealings with the petrol companies who use a reverse type system with similar AVAP components. Recover tank and distribution line vapours, filtered through charcoal beds to then return recovered liquid fuel back into the storage system.
Some car makers utilise a form of emission control, where vapour normally collected in the fuel tank, due to changes in ambient temperatures, are then re-injected into the inlet manifold.
I wonder if the caped off spout on the inlet manifold was the possible injection point??
There should be a collection canister somewhere above the fuel tank and a solenoid valve operated by the ECU, possibly in the engine bay.
…………………………………
I haven’t turned green yet!!
I seem to remember reading somewhere a calculation on the daily amount ( in volume and monetary terms) of fuel vapour released into the atmosphere, and talk about introducing a form of sealed fuel tank filling/vapour recovery system.
Regards
From dealings with the petrol companies who use a reverse type system with similar AVAP components. Recover tank and distribution line vapours, filtered through charcoal beds to then return recovered liquid fuel back into the storage system.
Some car makers utilise a form of emission control, where vapour normally collected in the fuel tank, due to changes in ambient temperatures, are then re-injected into the inlet manifold.
I wonder if the caped off spout on the inlet manifold was the possible injection point??
There should be a collection canister somewhere above the fuel tank and a solenoid valve operated by the ECU, possibly in the engine bay.
…………………………………
I haven’t turned green yet!!
I seem to remember reading somewhere a calculation on the daily amount ( in volume and monetary terms) of fuel vapour released into the atmosphere, and talk about introducing a form of sealed fuel tank filling/vapour recovery system.
Regards
Luke, thanks for your post! Very reassured to know this is at least the correct ECU. Apparently worst case would be it can be serviced for about £50 by mail order, but I had a bad afternoon finding seven garages (out of seven) didn’t want to know about checking it once it was back in the car. It makes all the difference to know it’s the correct unit, and can be tested to make sure it is fully functioning.
One garage said the MOT emission test results were useful, and I do have one set of fail and pass results, unfortunately from 6/6/2007 before the current problems started.
The second test seems to show the system is capable of very fine adjustment, CO results at less than 0.010 for both fast and normal idle.
Unfortunately the first test seems to indicate the car is even better at losing the settings!
CO emissions were average of twice the limit on Fast and Normal Idle.
HC gave average results of 110 on two fast idle tests before adjustment to 0.
Lambda stayed well within limits.
One garage said the MOT emission test results were useful, and I do have one set of fail and pass results, unfortunately from 6/6/2007 before the current problems started.
The second test seems to show the system is capable of very fine adjustment, CO results at less than 0.010 for both fast and normal idle.
Unfortunately the first test seems to indicate the car is even better at losing the settings!
CO emissions were average of twice the limit on Fast and Normal Idle.
HC gave average results of 110 on two fast idle tests before adjustment to 0.
Lambda stayed well within limits.
briefly, ecu can not loose settings, they are fixed, otherwise they are corrupted and the whole ecu falls over. Only actual fault will be a spurious reading from an ECU input. The ECU obviously functions correctly as it drives the engine warning.management light correctly.
What you need is nothing more than a diagnostics session (most auto diagnostic people run out of a van and charge a fixed rate, garages typically do not carry this kit. However the BX is bloody easy to check your self, only need an LED, a resistor and a couple of pieces of wire! Or an expensive SnapOn ecu management checker like what i've got some where.
Little change in fast and normal idle emmisions sound like thay have been faked, i assume you didnt stand and watch the test?
Please dont go sinking too much money in the wrong places on the car, its worth spending time on, but its easy to rack up a huge bill and end up hating the car!
The EVAP pipe can be seen clipped into the oil filler housing.
What you need is nothing more than a diagnostics session (most auto diagnostic people run out of a van and charge a fixed rate, garages typically do not carry this kit. However the BX is bloody easy to check your self, only need an LED, a resistor and a couple of pieces of wire! Or an expensive SnapOn ecu management checker like what i've got some where.
Little change in fast and normal idle emmisions sound like thay have been faked, i assume you didnt stand and watch the test?
Please dont go sinking too much money in the wrong places on the car, its worth spending time on, but its easy to rack up a huge bill and end up hating the car!
The EVAP pipe can be seen clipped into the oil filler housing.
Hi Vanny thanks for hte information - and the advice. Car is booked in for MOT, and of course the sensor, tomorrow, the idea being to establish just how much work is required in total and find out if it needs to go to be recycled while it is still driveable! I have four BXs and can only keep two. MOTs on the red 16v and the silver 16v are pretty cost effective pointers to find out how much I'm taking on before I get rid of the one I bought off Jon - not an easy decision. Anyway, it seems happier already with some fresh high octane petrol. Here's hoping it will go the distance at a slow steady speed withoug getting too hot.
As a money saving pointer (aimed at the forum rather than an individual), call them and ask for an MOT check (IE a full MOT but without the expensive fail shhet). Saves them wasting an MOT slot (and hence are quite happy to do it), and you should be able to negotiate a much lower price (like £20 rather than £50+), ask nice and they might let you watch and take notes. That is if you think it will fail.
My local garage used to do this, largely because the owners could not be bothered to work on a BX (there words not mine) so would tell me everything i needed to know about how to go about fixing the car. Combine with useful knowledge from here and elsewhere, and i reckon i must have saved a few quid!
My local garage used to do this, largely because the owners could not be bothered to work on a BX (there words not mine) so would tell me everything i needed to know about how to go about fixing the car. Combine with useful knowledge from here and elsewhere, and i reckon i must have saved a few quid!