Converting Hurricane into 16 Valve model

All aspects of tuning,modification and repairs to the BX 16valve.
dougaldog
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Converting Hurricane into 16 Valve model

Post by dougaldog »

Folks,

A bit of advice and/or suggestions please. Due to my 16 valver suffering from tinworm I've rebuilt a Hurricane model into a 16 valve version. All parts on this car are standard and the car has been inspected by the DVLA local office and the inspector has passed the car with no problems and the car has also passed it's MOT with no issues.

Now for the rub. All relevant paperwork has been submitted to the DVLA who have replied that they cannot alter the V5 to reclassify the car as as 16 valver. Before the work started I checked and they stated that this conversion was possible and would not present no problems. I carried out a similar job in the early 90s and the V5 was issued without question. I am now left with a car which can (apparently) only be insured as a modified Hurricane. Somewhat annoying after all this work.

The options seem to be
1. Keep the car as a modified vehicle with the resulting insurance problems.
2. Dismantle the car and sell the parts on fleabay.
3. Get another car (as I cannot afford an Aston Martin this is a difficult option).
4. Get a standard 16V (but there are not that many for sale).

I do like this model so am reluctant to change for something different

If anyone has had a similar experience with the DVLA (how do they classify an insurance rebuild where a new shell is required?) I would be grateful for advice. Their website says this is possible so I am somewhat confused now!

Regards,

DG.
surjit25
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Post by surjit25 »

If over here, a eng. change is allowed but ori particulars of the car remains..eg.. Hurricane cannot be changed to BX16V.
Duno about there yr DVLA..

You r staying in Leighton Buzzard been there b4 some years back
quite near to where my sis lives in Luton.
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Timmo
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Post by Timmo »

bit of a bummer that!
i'd try and ring them back, speak to someone different maybe??
Timmo 8)

After all i am the Cornish one!

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NZ16v
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Post by NZ16v »

if it was me, our vehicle testing guys wouldnt even notice-you should be replacing factory with factory, so who would notice? Grind off the 16v logo, and try it. How could they know? I avoid citroen garages over here these days, as they are b*****d sticklers for factory crap, and they wont even let my 17s go through, but they are .3% within size-dicks.And they charge a fortune.
Would rather be driving ONE 16v,than fixng TWO.
dougaldog
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Post by dougaldog »

Tried different people, tried to convince them that this was successful a few years ago but why different now? Both the local garages here and Citroen stealers are happy with what's been done (even been offered a job as an auto electrician!). Confuses them no end however when they see a sandblasted engine.

All reples seem to end up with the same person in the DVLA who categorically states that the answer is no............

Will keep trying though.


Sujrit.Luton isn't too far away but I won't be here for too much longer. Thinking of going West.
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

OK, I don't know all the answers but since I work at the Department for Transport I'll have a go!

What you CAN do, in my opinion, is to re-shell a 16V using your Hurricane as a donor for the shell - that means you would need the ID from a 16V that you also own and can transfer the reg number from. There's a load of other issues around this such as how you deal with the VIN. I have a sneaking suspicion this got a whole lot more difficult in recent years - I know years ago you'd see RS2000 shells advertised 'with logbook' but which could then be used to 'badge up' a 1300. Pretty sure that's no longer allowed, but would be worth looking under 'motoring' on direct.gov web site for confirmation.

The other option is pretty much what you've done - swap the running gear you had laying around into the Hurricane, retaining the reg number etc from the Hurricane. This would be your only option if you had already declared a 16V donor as a write off as you wouldn't be able to retain the reg.

What that leaves you with is the necessity to convince an insurance company that the vehicle is identical to a 16V in all but name. Assuming no upgrades were carried out at the time, any of the specialist insurers that cover modded cars will have no issue covering this on an agreed value basis. It might cost you a little more than the cheapest quote for a stock 16V, but that's just life I'm afraid.

I used to run a Ford Cortina Mk2 2 door 1300 Deluxe, that at various stages sported 1700 heavily cammed engine, different brakes, suspension, wheels, exhaust, gearbox, diff, sliding roof, fibreglass panels etc etc. Even as a student it never cost me more than £400 to insure it living in Birmingham. The key is finding an insurance company that understands what you've done and recognises the risk is no higher than a standard 16V.

Adrian
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Timmo
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Post by Timmo »

NZ, the issue comes if you have a bump which is your fault, if an assesor ocmes and looks at the car, see's the engine isnt standard then they can Void the insurance policy and leave you in the poo!

it pays to be honest! although on ebay you always see the chav cars with 'still listed as 1.2 ont he log book' when they've dropped a 2l lump oin!!
Timmo 8)

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NZ16v
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Post by NZ16v »

true...am tempted over here to only have one registration, as i have two 16vs in red!!!!
Would rather be driving ONE 16v,than fixng TWO.
dougaldog
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Post by dougaldog »

Thanks for the replies. Annoyingly when I rang the DVLA a year or so ago they stated this conversion was possible. The donor 16V was declared as scrapped on this presumption. How would I go about getting an insurance broker to class this 'modified' car as a near-as-dammit valver? I have a letter from a Citroen dealer stating that as far as they are concerned the car is a 16 valver. What else would I need?
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Post by NZ16v »

i would of thought an engineers/mechanics certification stating that the car is identical to a 16v as far as the shell goes, with comparison pics? they are so similar mechanically its not funny, engine,rollbar, and spheres aside. A good citroen mechanic with the workshop manuals should be able to photocopy comparitive sheets from them showing similarities/slight diffferences.
Would rather be driving ONE 16v,than fixng TWO.
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

dougaldog wrote:Thanks for the replies. Annoyingly when I rang the DVLA a year or so ago they stated this conversion was possible. The donor 16V was declared as scrapped on this presumption. How would I go about getting an insurance broker to class this 'modified' car as a near-as-dammit valver? I have a letter from a Citroen dealer stating that as far as they are concerned the car is a 16 valver. What else would I need?
Unfortunately when it comes to call centre staff at DVLA they're usually of the 'computer says yes/no' variety. We get loads of people put through to us because the first words they've said are 'I've got this camper van.....' but when you hear the rest of the question it's to do with driver licensing or taxation, not vehicle construction.

You need to ring specialists - there's loads, but Adrian Flux would be a good place to start. You'll have to describe it as a Hurricane, but when they ask about mods just say it's mechanically converted to a 16V, no more no less, so performance-wise that's the risk. Say it's been done using genuine parts from a 16V and that there's no effective difference.

Body-wise it's probably worth stating it was half a 16V up on a standard BX from the factory, but assuming you've put the bumpers and skirts on it that takes it up to 16V spec too.

Photos will be required - you should be able to e-mail them through if they need to see them to quote, which is doubtful.

If they ask if you're a member of an owners club, then yes you are - this one! We don't issue membership numbers, but it's a valid statement to make and they will take you seriously as an enthusiast.

Adrian Flux aren't necessarily the cheapest, but are very well known, so once you've got a quote use that for comparison. Buy a Kev Car magazine and ring round the modified insurers in the back.

By the way, I've never needed an engineers report for anything that didn't involve structural changes e.g. converting FWD to RWD or similar - basic sheet metal changes and power upgrades don't normally need it.

Hope that helps

Adrian
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Post by Vanny »

there is only one change between a standard shell and a 16v shell, and you can buy the difference as an aftermarket spare from Citroen. The difference is that towing bracket behind the cover in the front bumper. It is reasonably easy to remove from a donor shell (it spot welded on in i think 4 places). I can probably send you the relevant sheet in the workshow manual.

On the conversion front i too was told by the DVLA that this was a possible conversion, 10 years ago now, i was going to convert the 19rd to a 16v, the only thing i seemed to expressely need was a letter from citroen stating the car was physically the same as a valver so it could be re registered by the DVLA as a 16v.
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

Problem is caused by the lowest common denominator being someone in a call centre.....

You can't 'change' the V5 from one model to another, as it's basically fraud in describing one model that came off the production line as something it's not (even if, mechanically and physically, it is the same) - you can make the necessary changes to the vehicle and DVLA will reflect any colour change, engine size or number change - but the V5c will always state the model is whatever it started out as.

Depending on who you get on the phone, you'll either get the yes you can or no you can't response, but very few will give you the full answer unless you ask the question in the right way, such as 'I've got a BX that came off the production line as X model. I'm intending to convert it to be a different spec, so can I update the model/type field to reflect what I've changed it to?' - ask that question and the answer SHOULD be no, but may not be.....
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Simran
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Post by Simran »

Up until recently ive never believed that ANY insurer would have staff that understood anything about cars in depth for when you would need to explain such a thing to, BUT i have heard good things about adrian flux and i have recently renewed my bike insurance through go compare and i just pick the cheapest on their list, turned out to be adrian flux. I had some issues to sort out and i have to say they were amazing on the phone so id quite happily recommend them for insurance if you fail to get the vehicle registration docs changed and need someone to give you a sensible quote for a vehicle that appears to be home made.
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Post by Vanny »

After Adrian Flux twice refused to insure me on the grounds that i might drive the car past the university i was studying at, i point blank refuse to have anything to do with them. After the first time i wrote to one of the managers and asked what the score was, he politley informed me that the opperator must have gone mad (not his actual words) as there was no reason what so ever not to insure students. But the following year, same farse, never bothering with them again.
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