*BACK UP AND RUNNING* It was an HGF.

All aspects of tuning,modification and repairs to the BX 16valve.
Daniel B
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*BACK UP AND RUNNING* It was an HGF.

Post by Daniel B »

Hi chaps,

my mate Darren took the BX out for a blast at the weekend, and noticed a bit of coolant loss - when he pulled up you could hear the pressure cap (Is that it's technical name??) making a slight hissing noise.

Where would I be best to get a new cap - as we are hoping it is just that that is the issue, and is no longer making a proper seal, and letting a bit of fluid out the top.

Failing that, if it is an HGF (Are these engined known to HGF?) what would be the best way forward?

Cheers

Dan
Last edited by Daniel B on Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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jayw
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Post by jayw »

HeadGaskets ain't a common fault, think i've only ever heard of a couple of cooked motors. Death by oil starvation is more likely than HG. That said, if the car's been standing for a long period and then hooned by your mate then it's possible.

Depending on the type of rad-cap (on the header tank) you have i'd be inclined to check the rubber seal or copper pressure seal (as in my case which was cracked letting air into the system) and then check for cracked / perished hoses. The system holds it's temperature because it's pressurised, letting air in causes steam, expansion and ejaculation (of fluids) :wink:

Any factors should be able to get you a cap, alternatively I have a spare as i'm using a Stant.

Should catch up really Dan, you're only down the road from me...
Now listen here you mullet...
Daniel B
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Post by Daniel B »

Hi Jay,
thanks for your reply - and yes I didn;t think I had ever heard of an HGF on these engines, and this one has been well looked after and only given the best treatment and servicing.

She hasn't been standing for a long period, semi occasional use, and always warmed up before any hooning is due to happen.
I will check out the rad cap, and probably get a new one as a matter of course, we have a locak motorist discount centre, which are pretty good, so I will probably drop in there this week.
What's a Stant??

I always think you are down Sarf of London, keep forgetting you have moves to Basingstoke, very close indeed!

Cheers

Dan
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Post by NZ16v »

Its all about servicing. If the headgasket isnt changed according to citroen specs-we do them every 100,000km minimum, then they will eventually fail, its inevitable.

No engine can avoid blowing a headgasket once its corroded and shot. Leaving it just corrodes the block.

These cars are 20 years old, nearly all the engines in em would have had a hard life, regardless of servicing, oil changes etc.

Changing one is a pain, but if your valver is a keeper, check when it was last done, and if it needs it, DO IT.

My two cents, after leaving my AXGT too long and blowing a HG!
Would rather be driving ONE 16v,than fixng TWO.
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jayw
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Post by jayw »

It's you that keeps moving Dan, i've been in Amazin'stoke for 10 years :lol:

The Stant is a Racing Cap http://www.stant.com/brochure.cfm?broch ... ion_id=179 Cost about £25 iirc

As for changing headgaskets as a matter of general servicing i think i'd rather give it a miss on any motor, let alone one of these. Most headgaskets outlive the cars they're in, usually only failing due to overheating etc.
Now listen here you mullet...
Daniel B
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Post by Daniel B »

Thanks gents,

new cap ordered from a local motorfactor, so will pick it up tomorrow.

Pretty sure the head gasket was done a few years back on one of the many services and visits to Witmuns in Merstham.

Will update with how I get on,

Cheers

Dan
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

Could also be a crack in the header tank that opens up when its warm, or the hose on the underside might be damaged/not tight enough?

Our phase 1 suffered a mixture of head gasket failure/head corrosion as a result of not having the coolant changed when it should have been, plus complete absence of use! It did blow a LOT of white smoke out the back when it went, so we were under no illusions what the cause was....

Queue new head and gasket - my dad did the change on his drive with pretty basic tools, bar the cambelt pins I bought off here some years ago. He even managed to get the belt tensioned correctly after only a couple of attempts!
Daniel B
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Possible HGF ...continued

Post by Daniel B »

Ok - its not looking good - new coolant cap fitted took it for a blast this evening, stopped halfway and checked the header tank , all seemed ok .Got it back home after some "spirited" driving popped the bonnet and coolant dripping off everything courtesy of the header tank pressure relief hole peeing it out.
Fan cuts in ok & no nasty warning lights on the dash. Temp gauge high but not into red zone

So thinking several possibilities or a combination of one or more:

- Thermostat not opening fully preventing circulation of coolant to rad.
- Radiator sludged up due to lack of use.
- Worst case, head gasket.

.. no obvious signs of oil in coolant or vice versa ,or smoking exhaust , and the motor runs smooth , no misfires or lumpy running at idle. Any ideas or suggestions welcome!

(Posted by Darren)
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jayw
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Re: Possible HGF ...continued

Post by jayw »

Daniel B wrote: .. no obvious signs of oil in coolant or vice versa ,or smoking exhaust , and the motor runs smooth , no misfires or lumpy running at idle. Any ideas or suggestions welcome!
With the absence of any other symptoms i'd still be inclined to say first base is an air leak from a joint or perished hose. Did it have sufficient coolant in it as the hot weather could be a contributing factor if the coolant mix is weak.

Refill it with coolant, bleed it up properly. Then run it up stationary, check for cold spots on the rad, leaks out of the system, listen for bubbling or gurgling around the system.

If all else fails get it pressure tested before you start taking it apart...
Now listen here you mullet...
Daniel B
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Post by Daniel B »

Hello gents,

thanks for all the replies, and on the Visa thermostat thread as well.

It ended up that there was a stock 16V stat on there, so we went for another of the same flavour, but the chap in MDC had two on his books, an 88 and an 82, so we plumped for an 82.

Darren took the hose off the bottom of the rad, to drain the system, and then flushed it through using a garden hose.
New thermostat fitted, about 4 litres of good quality antifreeze mix put in, then run up to temperature, first with the heaters on, and then off - temp seemed fine, fans kicked in, and the thermostat was definitely working, no apparent coldspots on the rad.

Allowed it to cool down, and put another litre or so in, as it had dropped a bit, as you would expect.

Took for a little run of only 2 miles really, nice and gentle, ad when we pulled up the fluid was once again coming out of the header tank :cry:

Seems to be it only exhibits these symptoms under load, and also when we got back home, now with the heaters on, just reversing into the drive sent the temperature way up.

Irritatingly I know my guages read high, but do not know how high, and no warning lights came on, but still.......

So next step is a pressure check would you say??
Having said that, I ran the car upto Tesco on Tuesday, and tonight when taking the cap off it still had pressure in it, as it still hissed nicely, so surely there cannot be any pressure issues, or leaks in the system, if it can hold it after 3 days?

Anyone know a good trusted independent, preferably working out of a shed, somewhere in the Basingstoke/Newbury/Oxfordshire area?

Toying with the idea of Witmuns, but somewhere closer, if they are as good would be more convenient.

Someone in the band my girlfriens is in mentioned this chap, who used to work for a Citroen garage, but now has his own business:
http://www.markdunncitroenspecialistsn8.co.uk/

Cheers

Dan
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jayw
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Post by jayw »

Daniel B wrote:
So next step is a pressure check would you say??
Having said that, I ran the car upto Tesco on Tuesday, and tonight when taking the cap off it still had pressure in it, as it still hissed nicely, so surely there cannot be any pressure issues, or leaks in the system, if it can hold it after 3 days?

Anyone know a good trusted independent, preferably working out of a shed, somewhere in the Basingstoke/Newbury/Oxfordshire area?

Dan
You sure it's bled up properly??

What's wrong with Pete? He's not a million miles away...

You could always try Cabra Citroen in Blazinstoke, he's an old chap (& son), ex-cit technician been doing it all his life and knows his stuff. Number will be on the web, workshops right next to the town centre.
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Post by Vanny »

I've never experienced the problem myself, but is sounds like a collapsing pipe, ie under some revs the water pump 'sucks' water and ends up with a pipe collapsing and effectively closing its self off, results in a big pressure increase and no cooling effort. More importantly there is normally no obvious sign because the pipe only collapses under load.


Like i say, i've never experienced this myself, and i understand its more likely to be a 'big' pipe than a little. I have no idea how you would test it, perhaps by vacuuming down the coolant system?
ollie
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Post by ollie »

if any pipe would be soft and likely to vacuum upo it would be the one to the botom of the water pump from the rad which runs along the drivers side and in at the back of engine, uually soft as S**t where oil gets too it off back of engine...
Daniel B
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Post by Daniel B »

Thanks for all the replies chaps,

kind of run out of time with this one, so have taken her to a recommended garage in Thatcham - dropped her off Thursday night.

Fridays roadtest proved the point of 'the faster you go the hotter it gets' so he is going to flow test the rad, and check the impeller pump hasn't rusted away.

he has not ruled out HGF, but still thinks it unlikely.

I will update when I have news.

Cheers

Dan
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Adrian E
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Post by Adrian E »

Those rads we've done in the past from GSF have proved pretty iffy unless you use demineralised water religiously to stop them corroding.

Water pump impellor failure sounds a possibility along with hose collapse - would make sense that if the flow isn't working properly under high load conditions but OK in traffic? Water will still circulate without an impellor, but maybe not being helped round the system as efficiently?
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