Copy of v5 document

[Anonymous]

OK as you all know the zx is back on the road, now my only problem standing in front of me is emmisions! 45's and no cat does not pass the cat test ! lol!

Now there issome little known passage in the mot testers manual that say's if engine has been changed on a vehicle then it must pass the emmisions test for the engine NOT the car i.e you boy's have to have less than 3.5 % co at idle and do not need a catalyst .

Now my man usually get's the zx through but im getting ready for the time when he can't so basically if i tell the mot station the zx has had an engine change and that it is now the engine from a 1990 is bx then i have to live up to 3.5%co see what im getting at?!

so is there any of you kind harted lads out that would photo copy/scan and e-mail their v5 or the v5 of a 16v they have broken for spares. Then i can just say that is where my engine came from cos lets face it what mot tester willknow the older engine is alloy and mine is steel. and roberts your fathers brother i get an mot !


Thanks for all your kind offers in advance !!!

Whitty


WHITTY

[Adrian E]

I'm pretty sure what you're suggesting is not the case.

For cars like the BX that were built both pre and post introduction of cats there was an extension to allow continued registration of new cars to 1/1/93 whereas new models (including the ZX) were required to have cats from mid-1992.

.....have just grabbed the MOT testers manual at work! Section 7.3 (Exhaust emissions - spark ignition - general) states uder vehicles fitted with modified engines "If an engine has been modified in any way, it still has to meet the exhaust emission requirements according to the age of the vehicle"

Only if "vehicles fitted with a different engine" applies does the manual state that the "test according to which is older, engine or vehicle" e.g. a 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emission purposes. Note: The onus is on the vehicle presenter to prove engine age.

Another section states "Early catalyst vehicles: The flowcharts and notes must be carefully followed. If a vehicle is fitted with a catalyst it does not necessarily mean a 'cat' test is required.

Looking at the flow charts, any vehicle post-1/8/92 should have a BET (Basic Emissions Test) = fast idle CO less than or equal to 0.2%, HC less than or equal to 200ppm, Lambda 0.97 to 1.03 and an idle test where CO is less than or equal to 0.3

Failure of the BET test DOES NOT EQUAL AN MOT TEST FAIL! You then have to carry out a CAT1 test (cars registered 1/8/92 to 31/8/2002). For cars registered 1/8/92 to 31/7/95 if no exact VIN match can be found in the VOSA database you carry out a non-CAT test with CO <= 3.5% and HC <= 1200ppm

If you ring VOSA MOT helpline they should be able to run your VIN through the system and check if specific emission values are listed. If they are, you're going to have problems. If they're not you should be fine.

My old BX (with a cat) wasn't listed so if it had ever failed the cat test (which it never did) they would've done this alternative test.

If you've got more details of your vehicle I can check the flowchart again, but I don't have access to the emissions data book to check that.

Adrian

[Adrian E]

By the way, can you resize your signature - it's making the page load too wide!

[Vanny]

personal experience from my petrol to diesel change is that the tester clocked it before i'd got into the bay as being a 1.9td without me even mentioning it and tested the engine as a 1.9td which it has so far always passed! There was no requirement to prove where the engine had come. However this fits in (i think) with what Adrian has said about it being a pre 92 car!


best signature picture size i think is 700px, stops the page going over width on a 1024 width screen.

[Mike E (uk)]

Does this mean that if I stick the engine from my 1990 Cavalier into, say a 1995 Cavalier, It will pass the MOT emissions under the pre-1992 test?

Mike

[Adrian E]

It would seem so - be worth double checking if you were tempted to do it! You'd probably have to be able to produce a copy of the V5c for the donor engine vehicle (with the correct engine number on it) so you can prove the age of the engine

[Anonymous]

Only if "vehicles fitted with a different engine" applies does the manual state that the "test according to which is older, engine or vehicle" e.g. a 1995 car fitted with a 1991 engine (of whatever make), test to 1991 standards for emission purposes. Note: The onus is on the vehicle presenter to prove engine age.



exactly so the onus ison me to proove the engines age hence why i want a v5 document i'm quite happy to chanbge my engine no!

[Adrian E]

I hadn't noticed the engine's a 1.9 BX 16V rather than the 2.0 in your first post. You could just make sure the engine code stamped on the front of the engine on a little plate is legible and provide some evidence of the web to show that the engine ended production in 1991 (for simplicity's sake!)

I assumed you'd just de-catted and carbed the original engine, hence me quoting the testing manual

I'm sure it'll be useful for someone

[iain a]

HMmm someone told me you need an official letter from the engine manafacturer stating the age of the engine.. as you would have to do with all kit cars (the chap had just finished building a caterham 7 with a ford engine, i asked the question about CATs, and he said no need if you have proof in a letter of the age of the engine..)

[Adrian E]

Kit cars are a different kettle of fish - for registration you'll need all sorts of paperwork, but emissions I think will be a simple non-cat test for any car built from used parts (because the VIN won't be in the database)

[Mike E (uk)]

I suppose there are actually so few kit cars and new cars fitted with old engines that a simple 'test according to the engine's age' is a sensible and workable principle.


Mike