Battery and Starting

cossie · Post by **cossie** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:27 pm

Hi guys
My 16v has sat on the drive for a week since I last started her.So today I txed her,she started fine,went to post office,taxed her (first time in 5 years)started ok there.I then thought I will give her a run up to a garage for some petrol and check tyres.Pressures were all over the place.
After I got petrol she would not start,sounded like a flat battery (new one) had to get two guys give me a push.She bumped ok,so I drove home,give her a bit of welly,she drives just great.
Turned off at home and restarted all ok,but she does this other times too,like at the MOT station last month?? she will or she wont start,any ideas?
I am told the alternator is charging ok.
I have replaced the earth strap from the battery tray too.Any other earth straps I need to look at?
Its wierd how she will start in the cold after standing a while but not after shes been driven a while.

thanuttiscotsman · Post by **thanuttiscotsman** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 7:47 pm

hiya it does certainly sound like an earth problem. maybe also check the battery terminals are well connected to their cables. i know there is more than one earth but not sure about locations. prolly best to wait till it wont start again then go down the earths with a multimeter to find the connection failure, it is prolly something silly as apposed to a major problem. mine wont start unless the strap on the tray is well connected, if mine is unscrewed or loose it struggles.

cheers rossco

exman · Post by **exman** » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:39 pm

i had that once think it was live stud on starter motor broken could be bad earth though

docchevron1472 · Post by **docchevron1472** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 2:00 am

Sounds like a high resistance starter solonoid.
They quite often work ok when cold but snuff it when there's some heat in them..

Have you tried bridging the trigger to the big positive terminal?

NZ16v · Post by **NZ16v** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:58 am

Sounds like exactly the same problem i am having with my starter motor on my new P2- sometimes it works,other times you gotta wiggle a couple of wires comin off alternator to get it starting. Sorting it out this weekend-there is a fantastic sticky on aussiefrogs from Alan S(r.i.p) all about the starter and how to get at efficeintly. Bit of DIY will sort you out no problem chum!

cossie · Post by **cossie** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 8:45 am

Thanks for the replies guys,its too damn cold to play with it right now.Took her to work last night and she started this am ok,and last night.
I have changed a starter motor a couple of times on Ians 16v's.Think I done the last one in 2 hours.
Radiator out job,then?
Are there any other earths to check? I fitted a new cable on the battery tray to gearbox.

Post by **Toddman** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:45 am

Could be a few different things but mostly covered already

The OE battery terminals are prone to "stretching" which can cause no end of niggles so a good move is to chop them off and replace with some good quality aftermarket items.
As doc says the solenoids are also a weak point, personally I beleive that the 16v solenoid is just the same poart used on the lesser power starters which mean the solenoid just isn't man enough for the currents involved hence why they so often fail.

Easy way to check the earth is just to run a jump lead from the battery earth to the engine block when you get the problem and IF you can get in there bridging the solenoid will tell you if that is the trouble.

Cheers
Luke

Post by **Vanny** » Tue Dec 02, 2008 3:02 pm

fit XUD 9TE starter

job done!

(its also tiny and a doddle to fit)

NZ16v · Post by **NZ16v** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:47 am

Definitely go for a newer starter if you gonna replace-as far as getting it out, its a inlet manifold out job-go to aussiefrogs, and there is the full instructions on a sticky thread there.PAys to check and refurbish all the wiring too while you down that way-be silly to have to take it off again!!!!

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:56 pm

it could be an iffy section on the original wiring to the starter,
the simple fix is to fit a relay on the starting circuit as that helps eliminate the old wiring by sending a full voltage through to it (iirc i have a 70amp relay fitted on mine), is a very simple job to do too (remove the ignition feed wire from the starter, replace with a new wire to run from the relay to the starter, connect old wire up to the relay feed side, then connect + and - up and Bingo!)

also worth if your changing the starter to seek out a td one as vanny said, the td starters have 1.1hp compared to the 0.9hp of the petrol versions, and the mi's do like a healthy starter! just make sure the number of teeth are the same! (mines a zx td one)

earths wise, there is the battery to chassis, battery to gearbox, gearbox to chassis and gearbox to battery clamp, i redid all of mine with Thick beefy cables and whilst at it (battery out) unplugged all of the multi plugs under the battery tray area gave them a clean up, light smear of vasalene and cable tied them back together, the earth cables i got from the local auto sparks and were very good prices! (the silly thick one was £7!)
with all of that done the engine Spins over very nicely!

docchevron1472 · Post by **docchevron1472** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:12 am

/\ what they all said!

Although you dont have to remove the manifold or the rad to get the motor out.
It's a bit more fiddly with everything in, but far from impossible.
I changed mine at the side of the road (in a wedding suit....)

What Timmo said about fitting a relay is very worthwhile.

Mike E (uk) · Post by **Mike E (uk)** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:04 am

1st check the small wire connection to the top of the solonoid, it is only a crimp termnal and it was intermittant on mine. I soldered directly to it and it was reliable again.

As suggested by Tim,
an extra relay really does work well.
The wiring to the solonoid goes via the keyswitch, and avoiding this long route with the extra connections gives the solonoid the full battery voltage, which I think will also reduce wear to the solonoid contacts.

Mike

Post by **Toddman** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:14 am

I second accessing the starter from underneath - you can even remove the oil filter for a little extra room if you still have the OE unit which is quite large compared to some of th enewer ones.

Cheers
Luke

Timmo · Post by **Timmo** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:58 pm

the Ginormous oe starter is a real pain to get out from either top or bottom unless you remove bits, like luke said thge oil filter helps!
if its one of the smaller starters the your okay! hell of a weight difference between the two too!

surjit25 · Post by **surjit25** » Thu Jan 01, 2009 2:33 am

I had the same problem and it was the starter which was the ori one from new but do clean the battery heads first that's the easiest to do.

To change it without manifold removal is almost impossible.
Mine has A/Cond and more hoses running about.
I even broke the oil filler connecting rubber hose (hard from age)
coz the starter has this big bracket behind with 2 11mm screws.

I too used a starter from the Xantia TD and now she starts really fast
like no BX has ever.

BX16V.com Forum

BX16V.com Forum

Battery and Starting

Battery and Starting

starting

starter