Ignition without getting Dizzy

[Vanny]

would someone like to share with me the relative merits of adding distributor less ignition?
Is it hard to do?
Just what do i need and where can i source the parts from?
How does it plug into the standard ECU?


Thinking it's an option (thats been suggested a number of times), and since i'm not aiming to put the enigne in till xmas it gives me some time!

[Toddman]

Vanny I may well be wrong here but AFAIK you cannot just make the usual ign system distributorless.

I have not looked deeply into this but I am pretty sure you need an ecu that is capable of controlling a coilpack so like I have said before the Motronic 3.1 is ideal.

I honestly think you will struggle to just bolt on a coilpack un;ess you change the ecu or pay out for some fancy triggering system.

Mike E talks of Owens car but sadly no real info has been mentioned yet.

I am sure it would be a popular mod though is straightforward and cheap.

Cheers
Luke

[robin hughes]

the ecu does indeed control the coilpack as we have a coil pack fitted to our 8v gti

[Adrian E]

Owen's car is set up pretty much like Chris' was ie full replacement ECU, throttle bodies, additional sensors, ZX coil pack, full rolling road tune.

Owen had the work done by PTS Developments in Wokingham and I don't think he's that familiar with the ins and outs of it all.

Adrian

[Toddman]

Thankyou Adrian - about time someone cleared this all up.

Like I keep saying it is not easy to just bin the dizzy you need to be able to control a coilpack.

Cheers
Luke

[Mike E (uk)]

The merits are removal of HT parts that wear,leak to earth and cause ignition interference. The Solid state system is fit and forget.
Most, if not all, modern cars have them.

A suitable electronic interface is needed to mate the ZX system on a BX16V.

Best solution of all is to mount a mini ignition coil on each spark plug and have no HT leads at all.
It would be possible to fit this type of system on a BX if you could find coils that would fit the head, and had lots of time to sort out the circuitry.

[Toddman]

That is fine until it is time to change the spark plugs then you find likek my bro did with his xsara that disturbing the individual coils makes one of them suddenkly die.

I have to say I don't think the std system is that bad it is just a shame PSA are such robbers.

Cheers
Luke

[Adrian E]

It would be possible to fit this type of system on a BX if you could find coils that would fit the head, and had lots of time to sort out the circuitry.

Could you use the cam cover from a 2.0 iron block 16V lump, with the big centre cover to accomodate the unit coils used on later 405 and the ZX 16V/306 S16? Come to think of it, Xsara VTS as well?

Doubt there's any difference - would need to check the part number for the cam cover gasket to be sure though.

If it is the same, could rob the whole system from one of these cars and re-map to suit.

Adrian

[Anonymous]

A friend of mine with a tuned 205Mi16 is using that type of coil, but he also uses Megasquirt. He found out that there is covers for the end of the camshaft available from Peugeot.

The coil is hardly visible, pic is focusing on the camshaft cover.

[docchevron1472]

Could you use the cam cover from a 2.0 iron block 16V lump, with the big centre cover to accomodate the unit coils used on later 405 and the ZX 16V/306 S16? Come to think of it, Xsara VTS as well?

Doubt there's any difference - would need to check the part number for the cam cover gasket to be sure though.

If it is the same, could rob the whole system from one of these cars and re-map to suit.

Adrian

I dont think it would fit? The heads are different although I stand to be corrected

Cheers
Chris G

[Anonymous]

Could you use the cam cover from a 2.0 iron block 16V lump, with the big centre cover to accomodate the unit coils used on later 405 and the ZX 16V/306 S16? Come to think of it, Xsara VTS as well?

Doubt there's any difference - would need to check the part number for the cam cover gasket to be sure though.

If it is the same, could rob the whole system from one of these cars and re-map to suit.

Adrian

I dont think it would fit? The heads are different although I stand to be corrected

Cheers
Chris G

There is small differences, but the cam cover will fit have I been told.
The heads differs on bolt pattern for exhaust, and the guides for the intake manifold are not in the same place.

[Mike E (uk)]

A quick look at the GTi8V circuit diagram shows the differences.
The solid state system is a wasted spark, and the coil is in effect also the distributor.

Two trigger signals are required from the ECU instead of one. These must have the correct phase so the correct pair of cylinders gets the spark.

Because 2 plugs fire at once; the coil charge time may be longer, so additional spark advance may be required. This complicates things.

I think it is not really necessary to replace the whole engine management system to get these signals. It is not a '5 minute' job though.

Mike

[ollie]

Just to add my two penoths worth, there isn't really any reason for not sticking with standard with a better coil and driver, any modded system is more xpensive used is greater than a dizzy cap occasionally!
The coil pack in cover arrangement used on the later 16v 406/ xantia etc is rubish and expensive in its own right!! fails intermittently and gives spurious other "faults"

What could be done fairly easily is to use the standard ECU, but rig up your own phase sensor in place of dizzy and use it to drive a small circuit which selects which coil pack to energise through a normal amp and double ended coils useing wasted spark, could also easily make it select individual coils if prefered, just choose carefully as many small coils have size constraints which have made them rather less reliable than the dirty great ones of old!

[Mike E (uk)]

I have 6 mini coils on my 406, and have replaced 3 in 3 1/2 years & 30k miles.

So they are certainly more fragile than normal big coils.

What Ollie suggests is exactly what I have in mind, but the standard system is working OK at present.

[kriskarrera]

Seeing as the worst thing about the standard cap & arm is their price, I wonder if a bracket could be fabricated so that a cheaper cap & arm could be fitted - such as the items found on the 8 valve XU engines.